The Hill Cumorah Legacy Project

Loughran_PatriciaRoweTranscript_04-15-2022_Edited.pdf

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Part of Interview with Patricia (Pat) Rowe, Friday, April 15, 2022

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Interview with Patricia (Pat) Rowe
Friday, April 15, 2022
The Hill Cumorah Legacy Project

Recorded over Zoom
Interviewee: Patricia (Pat) Rowe
Interviewer: Gerard Loughran
Questions developed by: Gerard Loughran and Taras Lozowy
Duration: 32:53 (unedited); 30:44 (edited)

Transcript
Notes: (1) Taras Lozowy was originally slated to conduct the interview with Gerard
Loughran, but he was unable to join the Zoom meeting because of technical difficulties.
(2) The timestamps in this transcript refer to the edited recording (30:44), which removed
approximately two minutes of silence and static from the beginning.
[0:00]
Gerard Loughran: Hey there, Pat. How you doing? [pause] Did you just still— [garbled
speech] I can see you now.
Pat Rowe: There [indistinct].
Gerard Loughran: How you doing?
Pat Rowe: Well, I have a cold.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah, sorry about that.
Pat Rowe: Yeah.

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Gerard Loughran: But, at least, I hope you guys had a good vacation, though, at least that.
Pat Rowe: We did! We did. It was good.
Gerard Loughran: Where did you guys go? You guys have fun on it, or—you know, if you
don’t mind me asking…
Pat Rowe: We went to Louisville, Kentucky—
Gerard Loughran: Oh, that’s fun. That’s fun.
Pat Rowe: Because we’re horse people, and we wanted to see what was down there. [laughs]
Gerard Loughran: Yep, yep, that sounds fun. Yeah, so, we’re just waiting for Taras to join
us—
Pat Rowe: Okay.
Gerard Loughran: Then we can get started. So, I want to say also, too, just, thank you for
taking your time to do this interview with us and helping us out with this project.
[Pat says something indistinct]
Gerard Loughran: Yeah. So, we hope—even though we’re not ourselves members of the
Church, I hope we can at least make you guys proud of what we’re making for the class.
Pat Rowe: Yeah, well, it sounds like an interesting concept.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah, yeah, it definitely is. We definitely learned a lot about the different
aspects of the Pageant itself.
Pat Rowe: Mhmm.

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Gerard Loughran: So, just in general, it seems like it was [a] very interesting [thing] that
actually went on up here, and it’s kind of a bit sad that it was it’s now gone.
Pat Rowe: Yeah. You know, I grew up with it.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah.
Pat Rowe: I mean, it was always here for me, so it is strange not to have it.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah. Yeah, so, we’ll give a Taras a couple more minutes to see if he’ll join,
but if not, then I guess you’ll just be stuck with me. [laughs]
Pat Rowe: [laughs] Well, I hope I can answer your questions.
Gerard Loughran: Oh, yeah, yep.
Pat Rowe: I spent the last six years online, at FLCC [Finger Lakes Community College], taking
classes.
Gerard Loughran: Oh, have you? That’d be really—that’s nice.
Pat Rowe: Finally finished. [laughs]
Gerard Loughran: So, what were you doing there at FLCC, doing?
Pat Rowe: I was working on a human services—
Gerard Loughran: Oh, okay. Yep.
Pat Rowe: Associate’s [degree], and it took me six years to get it.
Gerard Loughran: That’s good.
Pat Rowe: But I did it. [laughs]

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Gerard Loughran: That’s good. Congratulations. Yeah. I’m almost done, too, with mine. I’m
up here at RIT. I’ve got one semester left after this, so I’m looking forward to…
Pat Rowe: It feels so good when it’s done.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah. Alright, well, I’ll try—I’ll talk with Taras after this, but I guess we
can start now, anyway, without him. So, you’re Pat Rowe. You worked on the Pageant itself.
You—from what Dan [Gorman] has told us, our professor—that you were a seamstress working
with the Pageant.
Pat Rowe: No, I was in the wardrobe.
Gerard Loughran: Wardrobe. Okay.
Pat Rowe:I was mainly working with wigs and costumes in the south dressing room.
Gerard Loughran: Oh, OK.
Pat Rowe: There was a lot of different dressing rooms, and I had more mostly the crowd scene
ladies.
Gerard Loughran: Okay. Yep. So, was it more like you—were you working with the actors
themselves? Would they come in, and you’d get them all fitted and stuff like that, or would you
kind of just make ’em [the costumes] to fit, like, in a general aspect?
Pat Rowe: Well, the costumes, most of them have been made years ago—
Gerard Loughran: Yep.
Pat Rowe: You know, and up through the years, so some of them have—were quite old, but they
still represented those scenes that they were in.

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Gerard Loughran: Yep.
Pat Rowe: And sometimes they did have to make different ones for different-sized ladies—
Gerard Loughran: Mhmm.
Pat Rowe: That—if we didn’t have them. But it was mostly just the costumes that we had on
hand—
Gerard Loughran: Yeah.
Pat Rowe: That had already [been] made. And they would come in basically before dinner or
during dinner or just the—after dinner. They would come in at different times—
Gerard Loughran: Mhmm.
Pat Rowe: And get their costumes and their wigs on, and we would help them.
Gerard Loughran: [muffled] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense [best guess]. Yeah, I’m not too big
with, like, things in show business—sure, everything like the, I guess, correct questions as much
to ask—
Pat Rowe: Yeah.
Gerard Loughran: Or, kind of, just the lingo in general, so sorry if you felt that.
Pat Rowe: No, that’s fine.
Gerard Loughran: But yeah, so, I guess like—have you had any experience with this before,
working with wigs, or had you just kind of grown up and started doing that as part of your job
for the [5:00] Pageant?
Pat Rowe: No, I had—I always had long hair myself—

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Gerard Loughran: Yeah.
Pat Rowe: But I never did anything with wigs.
Gerard Loughran: Mhmm.
Pat Rowe: I started in the Pageant in the year 2000 with my family.
Gerard Loughran: Okay. Yep.
Pat Rowe: We were in it as a family in the cast, and then, from 2001 to 2007, both my husband
and I were on staff as well as cast with our family.
Gerard Loughran: Oh, okay.
Pat Rowe: And so—but no, I—when they asked me to work—first, I worked with the 10-yearold boys in the cast team, and then the next year, they put me in the office, and I worked there for
a year, and then they put me in the wardrobe, and I stayed there until 2007.
Gerard Loughran: Okay. So, is it more like—so, how did you even get started with actually
doing the Pageant? Was it something that you and your family did, growing up, and then you
kind of just moved on? Or…
Pat Rowe: No, we applied into—in 1997, we applied, but the person that was in charge of all of
the admissions, he told us we’d better wait because our—one of our sons had just passed away a
few months before, and—he was a good friend of ours, and so, we—he knew us—
Gerard Loughran: Mhmm.
Pat Rowe: And he said it would be better if you just waited. So, we waited to 2000, and then we
applied, and we were able to get in then.

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Gerard Loughran: So, do you—any specific parts of the wigs and stuff for the—do you have
any specific characters and stuff for the wigs that you worked on? Or was it more just general?
Pat Rowe: My department, in the south dressing room, we just had the general public, the
general crowd scene, ladies. There were no specialty ones.
Gerard Loughran: Yep.
Pat Rowe: But we did use mostly long, dark-haired [wigs] in the beginning years, and then we
went more towards the lighter brown wigs in the later years that we did, because they were
always researching, you know, and trying to find out what exactly the people would have looked
like and stuff.
Gerard Loughran: Yep. I get it. It makes sense. So, when you were working on the Pageant,
was it stressful or anything, or was it kind of [that you] enjoyed just that taking the time out to do
it, or was it a little bit more like a job than kinda enjoying it?
Pat Rowe: Yes. When you’re—hmm, let’s see…
[Gerard laughs]
Pat Rowe: When you’re just in the cast, like we were the first time, it was all so new; we had
never experienced anything like that.
Gerard Loughran: Mhmm.
Pat Rowe: Some of my boys—I had five sons—four sons at that time—and they—some liked it;
some didn’t. It was stressful because of that.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah.

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Pat Rowe: It was hard to keep the family going. Subsequent years of being on staff, I enjoyed it.
I enjoyed being one with the staff—
Gerard Loughran: Mhmm.
Pat Rowe: And working with them, and growing with them, and watching the Pageant miracles
happen, and… It was just a wonderful experience.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah.
Pat Rowe: The only stress was when we got really, really tired, and the weather was extremely
hot and humid. Then we would stress, and it would be tough, but other than that, it was good.
Gerard Loughran: That’s good. Yeah, no, it definitely seems like that was a—it’s a very
important pageant for you guys and stuff, and people in the faith itself. So, it’s definitely like—
how would you say that growing up with the Pageant and working with it, how has that affected
your life in general? I guess, has it strengthened your relationship with God or—and stuff like
that—or have you been…? Yeah, if that makes sense.
Pat Rowe: I remember, when I was a little kid, we would go to the Pageant as a family, and we
would sit on those plank benches held up by cinder blocks, and we’d watch the Pageant, and it
was always… I mean, I had my favorite parts of the Pageant that I really liked. And so, I don’t
remember ever not going to the Pageant, so it was it was always part of my religious upbringing.
And it just made the stories of the Book of Mormon more real. So, that definitely helped my
testimony grow.

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Gerard Loughran: Yeah. And so—sorry—I guess you’ve grown up with [10:00] the Pageant
itself, so you have—if you don’t mind me asking you—your family was Mormon, your parents
and stuff, too, so you’ve kind of always been Mormon?
Pat Rowe: Yeah.
Gerard Loughran: You haven’t really converted? Okay. Yeah, so—sorry, if that’s a little rude
or out-there; I’m sorry about that.
Pat Rowe: No, that’s fine. You know, I remember when I was younger, we never were in the
Pageant as a family, but we would sell hot dogs and hamburgers down the road in a little stand
for people that would come by. We sold T-shirts; we sold all kinds of things. As a Church group,
we would do that. And so, we were involved in that kind of a way.
Gerard Loughran: So, you grew up around here, then, when—
Pat Rowe: Yes.
Gerard Loughran: You grew up out near Palmeera [sic]—or, Palmeera—Palmyra—Palmeera?
Pat Rowe: Palmyra. [laughs]
Gerard Loughran: Palmyra.
[Pat says something indistinctly]
Gerard Loughran: Yeah, no, I mean—like myself, I’m from down by New York City—
Pat Rowe: Okay.
Gerard Loughran: So I’ve been up here for just school, coming to RIT. And unfortunately, I
came in a time when, if I kind of had known about the Pageant, I probably would have went [sic]

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over there and checked it out. It does seem like a very just good time, getting out in the warm
weather in the summer—
Pat Rowe: Mhmm.
Gerard Loughran: Hanging out, watching the plays and stuff, and enjoying it. But I never really
got to experience it myself with COVID and stuff when it happened.
Pat Rowe: Definitely. They call it the Pageant spirit. And whenever springtime comes, you start
getting the Pageant spirit—
Gerard Loughran: Yep. [laughs]
Pat Rowe: And you start getting that adrenaline. It’s coming! It’s coming! It’s soon! And so, you
emotionally are getting ready for it to come.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah.
Pat Rowe: So, it’s a big part of our lives because [of] that.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah, I get that like that. I mean, that must have been pretty difficult, at
least, when they decided to not renew it and bring it back, at least with the end of COVID. It’s—
yeah.
Pat Rowe: Yeah, well, it’s such a huge production.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah.
Pat Rowe: So much is put into it, and I agree with the Church leaders [that said] the money is
better spent on other ways, too, not just in one specific area. And because I grew up with it, it’ll

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always be a part of me. So, I’m not real sad that it’s—that it won’t be on, but there are
recordings. We can still watch it and just keep our memories alive.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah. It’s still there in your heart. It’s not gone yet, not fully.
Pat Rowe: Oh, no, it never will.
Gerard Loughran: Do you think the Church would decide to do different types of pageants like
that again? Or do you think that kind of—that idea of making pageants and plays and putting on
a whole spectacle might be kind of gone from the Church itself? Or…
Pat Rowe: I really don’t know. I mean, they said that some of the Pageants are still going to be
going, but I really don’t know if they would.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah, you know… Okay.
Pat Rowe: Because it’s just evolving. You know, the world turns [best guess]. [laughs]
Gerard Loughran: Yeah, I mean, it’s one of those things, when we’re learning about it, it’s kind
of like a—it’s a[n] entertainment from a different age from now—
Pat Rowe: Yeah.
Gerard Loughran: Like, you know, putting it on and getting everyone together for the summer,
so…
Pat Rowe: Yeah.
Gerard Loughran: So—yeah, I’m sorry; I’m just reading my notes right here. Sorry.
Pat Rowe: It’s okay. [laughs]

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Gerard Loughran: So, can you tell me a little bit more about what you guys did in the south
dressing room besides just wigs? What kind of other stuff was happening with those and/or the
other dressing rooms that you guys had?
Pat Rowe: In our dressing room, we had mothers with babies and little kids, and—so we had a
separate room for them to be dressing in, and we had—in the later years, we had put—what do
you call them?—little cribs—
Gerard Loughran: Mhmm.
Pat Rowe: A couple little cribs in there, and so that real little infants, the mothers could put them
in there, because the floors are dirty—
Gerard Loughran: Yeah.
Pat Rowe: Because it’s muddy and dirty up there, and so we tried to keep it clean for the babies.
And they really enjoyed that, having a nice, quiet, clean room for them and their little kids. And
one of us—there was like four or five of us staff—one of us would be down in that room at
night, and to help those ladies out there, we would have to put—some of the women with the real
short hair that didn’t want to wear a wig, we would wrap their heads with [15:00] materials that
we think represent back then, and so we learned how to do different kinds of wraps, like
Peruvian wraps and stuff like that. And then, another person would be doing—just walking
around, making sure that all the costumes are being put on properly.
Gerard Loughran: Yep.
Pat Rowe: Some of them are trickier than others. Most are just draped dresses, but some had
different components that need to be on just right.

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Gerard Loughran: That’s interesting that you guys are actually—you took the time to kind of
get the historical accuracies of the different parts of the costume. Yeah.
Pat Rowe: Yeah, they couldn’t leave the dressing room unless they were looked at by one of the
staff and made sure that the jewelry was on right, and their costumes were on right; they didn’t
have nail polish on; they had their dark sneakers on. So, there’s all those different little things
that needed to be [best guess]…
Gerard Loughran: Yeah, just little, tiny things that just—it brings it a lot more together, makes
a finished product a little bit more—yeah, the attention to detail.
Pat Rowe: Yeah, so you can’t have something up on stage that’s not period.
Gerard Loughran: Yep. Yeah. [laughs]
Pat Rowe: I mean, you don’t need to wear your glasses. Don’t wear them—
[Gerard laughs]
Pat Rowe: Keep them, then do, but… [laughs] So, there was a lot of different things [best
guess].
Gerard Loughran: Mhmm. So, the—at least in the south department, did you—because you
said you’ve been—you were working with the mothers and the kids a lot—would they—would it
be kind of—that would be one stop in them getting ready, to get dressed for the show and stuff,
would be stopping it at your department, and then moving on to another section? Or, did you
guys all just have it in that one department?
Pat Rowe: Our people came to just us.
Gerard Loughran: Okay. Mhmm.

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Pat Rowe: And then the other different sections of the cast, they would go to different dressing
rooms.
Gerard Loughran: How many dressing rooms and stuff did you guys have [laughs] for it? I
mean–
Pat Rowe: We had north, and I think we had upper and lower; we had south and another south;
and then we had—more—at least four or five dressing rooms.
Gerard Loughran: Really? Wow.
Pat Rowe: Because we had the men’s wigs and beards, and all the warriors. We [in the ladies’
dressing room] didn’t have the warriors. [laughs]
Gerard Loughran: Yup, yeah, so you guys had a ton of stuff with it. Okay. That’s cool. So—
and then, also, how would you how would you describe the Pageant’s work environment, I
guess? Was it mostly, like, fun and everyone’s having a good time or, you know, some people,
like some of the—your managers kind of getting on you, like, “Come on, we got to speed it up,”
and stuff like that. Like, how is it?
Pat Rowe: Oh, no.
Gerard Loughran: No?
Pat Rowe: It was all a spirit of love. It was—I think the hardest part is to keep the teenagers
going in the right direction. [laughs] Sometimes, they tend to want to wander and do things
they’re not supposed to, but…
Gerard Loughran: Yep.

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Pat Rowe: But, for the most part, they—you know, everybody is put into their cast teens, into
their age groups, and those groups kind of self-monitor.
Gerard Loughran: Yep.
Pat Rowe: So, that helped, an awful lot. So...
Gerard Loughran: Was it—and so, I know families would do it as a family; like, they would all
try and get into the cast. Would you guys try and keep them together? Like, if you get, say, my
dad wanted to do it with me, right—would we be in [the] same scenes together, or would we
kind of just be wherever we needed to be? I guess if that makes sense.
Pat Rowe: Well, it depends on where you’re cast.
Gerard Loughran: Mhmm.
Pat Rowe: If you were cast as a warrior, you would be always rehearsing and being with the
warriors. If your dad was cast as one of the main characters, he would be in wherever he needed
to be, to be practicing that part. So, as a family, the only time we were together as a family was
at mealtimes and devotional times. Otherwise, we’d be in our cast team, doing what we needed
to.
Gerard Loughran: Yep. So, how much, I guess, preparation did you guys do before the Pageant
itself started and everyone showed up? Did you guys have certain stuff that you guys would do
before everyone showed up to get ready, just to smooth the process along, or was it just, “We’ll
just wait till everyone gets here, and then we’ll do all the fitting and everything else”?
Pat Rowe: Well, we went—our group, some of us—I think three of us—live in this area, and so
we would go a week early, and we would clean the dressing room and put up their posters, and

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get the costumes from storage and put—bring them in, and make sure they’re all clean and
everything, and—so, basically just familiarizing ourselves with [20:00] the different costumes,
the different wigs, so… But yeah, it takes a good week beforehand.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah, yeah, I would imagine, just with the scale of everything that’s going
on with that. But…
Pat Rowe: Yeah! [laughs]
Gerard Loughran: Did you have any hand in any of the casting, or were you just part of—
Pat Rowe: No.
Gerard Loughran: They [the actors] showed up now; they just showed up, and you got them
fitted?
Pat Rowe: Yeah. No, we just dress them. [laughs]
Gerard Loughran: Okay. Yeah.
Pat Rowe: But all of the casting was done on that first Saturday night, and it’s all done by the
directors. Yes, you have your application in before October something, I think. And then by
January, they’ve gone through all of the applications, I mean,
Gerard Loughran: Mhmm. So if you want it to be in the Pageant, how would you—like, how
would you go about that? Was there, like, applications to fill out, to be to be considered?
Pat Rowe: Yes, you have your application in before October something, I think. And then, by
January, they’ve gone through all of the applications, I mean, thousands of them—
Gerard Loughran: Yep.

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Pat Rowe: And pulled out the ones that they think would work best. Like, they were always
looking for young adults because there’s a lot of dancers and warriors and [things?—unclear].
They needed the older people, a lot of older people, for the crowds. They needed a lot of kids,
little kids, for the Christ scene. So, pretty much, if you were a young adult, you’d get in.
Sometimes, it was hard for families to get in. But I think our kids ranged from 4 to—what was
it? Age four to 14.
Gerard Loughran: Oh, okay.
Pat Rowe: So, I had one in the Christ scene, and I had two in the warrior scene, and I had one in
in a different scene, so that worked out well for us.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah. So, they all managed to get in at one point or another? They all were
able to partake within the Pageant?
Pat Rowe: Oh, yeah. As a family, we did eight years in a row.
Gerard Loughran: Oh, really? Wow.
Pat Rowe: Even when my husband was in called on staff, that meant the whole family could go,
so, as long as he was on staff, and then after a year or so, they called me on staff, so that’s how
we got eight years. They usually only let you be in for five years at a time, and [then] let other
people get in, but because I was on staff, they kept me there. And then, I was—I wasn’t there
for—what, six years or something? I didn’t go back. They asked me, 2013, to come back and
work in wardrobe again.
Gerard Loughran: Oh, really?
Pat Rowe: And so, I worked another five years in wardrobe—

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Gerard Loughran: Oh, wow.
Pat Rowe: And that was just with two of my kids, or just me—
Gerard Loughran: Okay.
Pat Rowe: So—because they were all growing up [laughs], leaving home.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah, yep. You’ve mentioned the invitation—like, you had to get your
invitations in. Do you mean like you have to be—
Pat Rowe: Applications.
Gerard Loughran: Applications? Oh, okay.
Pat Rowe: Yeah.
Gerard Loughran: I thought you said invitation, so…
Pat Rowe: Sorry. I probably did. [laughs]
Gerard Loughran: That’s fine. Yeah. Oh. Let’s see, what else… I kind of wish Taras was here,
’cause he had a couple good questions, and I’m looking at [the question sheet] right now to see if
he had some good ones to ask you. I’m not sure [if?] … Yeah, I’ll see. So, with those—with the
materials and stuff that you guys were using for the costumes, and having to be historically
accurate and stuff, do you think I made it harder to work with them, just because they’re more
different—they’re different materials, you know, that maybe you wouldn’t see as often, or
different styles and stuff, or—?
Pat Rowe: Because the cast is on this huge stage, and the audience is pretty far away from them,
the costumes themselves are made to blend in with each other, except for the main characters.

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Gerard Loughran: Oh, okay.
Pat Rowe: They have the brilliant colors.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah.
Pat Rowe: And as far as the fabrics, ours were just cotton, and we didn’t necessarily match
everything. So, like, if a 14-year-old girl came in and wanted to be perfectly matched, no, they
probably weren’t matched way back then. They wore whatever they had. And so, we would mix
and match like that, and some of the girls [laughs] didn’t really appreciate that.
[Gerard laughs]
Pat Rowe: But that’s the way we think it would have been. So…
Gerard Loughran: It’s—again, just—at least, speaking with you with, those little details that
you guys have thought about with the costume itself, it really [25:00] makes it—it really—it tells
me how much you guys cared about these costumes and the people that you were playing,
because you really were trying to keep it as historically accurate and really do your guys’ history
justice. [static; indistinct speech]
Pat Rowe: Yeah, they did a lot of—a lot of research.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah.
Pat Rowe: The directors—I mean, they would even go to countries where they were—this [the
events described in the Book of Mormon] would have been, and they would research down there.
So, it was…
Gerard Loughran: Yeah, I’m not really sure I have any more questions in general for you.

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[Pat laughs]
Gerard Loughran: But if you have any for me or anything about the project we’re doing, you’re
free to ask anything about what you guys are thinking about [indistinct].s
Pat Rowe: Well, who was it that came up with this project?
Gerard Loughran: Uh, I believe it was our professor, Dan Gorman. He’s the one that initially
reached out to you, I believe.
Pat Rowe: Oh, okay.
Gerard Loughran: I think it was—it’s part of his doctorate program, like, to teach a class and
have them [the students] make something, a website. I think it’s part of his, like, capstone, I
think?
Pat Rowe: Hmm.
Gerard Loughran: So, him—he had the opportunity to come to RIT and work with us, to build
this website, and to have this archive. I think it was his big idea that he’s had. He’s been in talks
with the Church, too, with [a boatload of?] leaders around here. This website, even though it
might not stay on RIT[’s servers]—[static; indistinct] on RIT—[made?] for a while, I believe the
Church will be getting access to it… [static; indistinct]
Pat Rowe: Yeah. That’s pretty neat! There’s been a lot of lot of hype around the Pageant for all
these years, and so…
Gerard Loughran: Yeah. We’re hoping we can do it a little bit [of] justice.
Pat Rowe: Yeah.

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Gerard Loughran [through static]: Plus, the videos and every [unclear] that people will have,
[unclear] get it archived to show you guys, [unclear] and help you guys remember and witness
[things, and so?].
Pat Rowe: So, do you know how many interviews are being done for this?
Gerard Loughran: Um, we have a class of about 30. I believe we’re having about 20 to 25
interviews or so with different people that have worked with the Pageant—
Pat Rowe: Mhmm.
Gerard Loughran: Like, all different levels. Some of the people who helped with—
Pat Rowe: Right.
Gerard Loughran: Parking, or the [park shop?], and stuff doing in the wardrobes and
everything else, so…
Pat Rowe: Mhmm.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah.
Pat Rowe: Yeah, it was definitely a worthwhile thing to watch, to be in, to help with. It’s so
funny; my youngest—
Gerard Loughran: Yeah, I’m very upset I missed it, yeah.
Pat Rowe: My youngest son, he wasn’t crazy about it. He didn’t want to do it, didn’t want to do
it; all these years, [he] didn’t want to do it. But he did anyway.
Gerard Loughran: Yep.

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Pat Rowe: And the last year we were in it, I told him, I said, “This is it. I’m—I’ve done my five
years. I can’t—you know, we can’t be in it anymore.” He says, “But Mom, I want to be in it next
year—”
[Gerard laughs]
Pat Rowe: “Because I’m old enough to be a warrior!” [laughter] So, I said, “Sorry you missed
your opportunity.” But that was nice that he grew up, you know, through those years and realized
that, you know, this is something pretty neat.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah.
Pat Rowe: But that was nice that he grew up, you know, through those years and realized that,
you know, this is something pretty neat.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah, it’s something special that you guys were able to do. Yeah.
Pat Rowe: Yeah, my older two sons, they were onstage fighting each other—
Gerard Loughran: Really?
Pat Rowe: I think, one of the years, as warriors, so—and then they had cousins—
Gerard Loughran: Yep.
Pat Rowe: That were in there with them, too, and—oh, they just had so much fun.
Gerard Loughran: I’m sure they also made a bunch of friends and stuff through it, too, as well,
so…
Pat Rowe: Oh, definitely.
Pat Rowe: So did I.

23
Gerard Loughran: Yeah.
Pat Rowe: When I go out to Utah to visit family and friends, the ones that I’ve made in the
Pageants, I mean, it’s just like, oh, home. Just—
Gerard Loughran: Yeah.
Pat Rowe: So…
Gerard Loughran: Alright. But then, I just need you to also—I’ll send it over again, but it’s just
like a—
Pat Rowe: Oh.
Gerard Loughran: Permission form that we’re going to have. There’s different levels to it. Do
you want your testimony kept held [unclear] not made public, you can spell that out, or if you
want parts not talked about or made public, you can do that,
Pat Rowe: Alright.
Gerard Loughran: Or whatever, so…
Pat Rowe: I did get that email.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah.
Pat Rowe: And then I went on vacation. [laughs]
Gerard Loughran: At least you had a good vacation, though. [laughs]
Pat Rowe: [30:00] Yeah, except for I got sick just, like, at the end.
Gerard Loughran: Yeah, yeah.

24
Pat Rowe: Oh, well. What can you do? [laughs]
Gerard Loughran: Yeah.
Pat Rowe: Okay. Alright, so how do I fill those out? Can I do it online?
Gerard Loughran: Um, I believe—yeah, yeah; I think you can do it through Word. I’ll send
another email with it, containing it, after this.
Pat Rowe: Okay.
Gerard Loughran: But if you have any questions about that, you can feel free to reach out to,
like, me or Dan or anyone—
Pat Rowe: Okay.
Gerard Loughran: And we’ll help you with that. Okay.
Gerard Loughran: Alright. Sounds like a plan.
Gerard Loughran: Thank you so much, Pat.
Pat Rowe: Yep. Thank you.
Gerard Loughran: Have a good rest of the day. I hope you feel better, too.
Pat Rowe: I feel better today than I did yesterday; that’s for sure.
Gerard Loughran: That’s good, that’s good.
Pat Rowe: Alright.
Gerard Loughran: Alright. Thank you, Pat. Bye.
Pat Rowe: Yep, bye-bye.

25
Gerard Loughran: Bye.

Dublin Core Metadata for the Interview
Title: Interview with Patricia (Pat) Rowe, Friday, April 15, 2022
Subject: Hill Cumorah Pageant, Costumes, Wigs, Theater, Youth, Family
Description: In this interview, Gerard Loughran speaks with Patricia (Pat) Rowe about her
experiences working in the ladies’ dressing room at the Pageant, assisting female cast members
with their costumes and wigs. Pat and her family participated in eight years of the Pageant as cast
members and members of the Pageant administration. Topics of conversation include the
Pageant application process, how families were split among cast teams, dynamics among family
members in the Pageant, costume work, and the involvement of children in the Pageant. Pat also
shares a few memories of attending the Hill Cumorah Pageant as a child. Near the end of the
conversation, Gerard provides a brief overview of the Hill Cumorah Legacy Project.
Creator: Gerard Loughran and Patricia Rowe
Source: Hill Cumorah Legacy Project
Date: Friday, April 15, 2022
Contributor: Gerard Loughran
Rights: Produced under an oral history collaborative deed of gift agreement with no restrictions
and nonexclusive license.
Format: M4A (audio; original), MP3 (audio; edited), PDF (transcript)
Language: English
Identifier:
•
•
•

Loughran_PatriciaRoweInterview_04-15-2022_audio_1148123397.m4a
Loughran_PatriciaRoweInterview_04-15-2022_Edited.mp3
Loughran_PatriciaRoweTranscript_04-15-2022_Edited.pdf